Westerhout says Trump was ‘very upset’ by Stormy Daniels story
Trump attorney Susan Necheles just asked Madeleine Westerhout about her time at the White House when the Stormy Daniels story came up.
“Did you have a conversation with President Trump about that?” Uh, yes I did.
Based on your conversation, Necheles asked, “what was your impression of his reaction? Westerhout said:
That he was very upset by it.
“And why?” Necheles pressed. Westerhout says:
In my understanding he knew it would be hurtful to his family.
Necheles asked: “That was based on what was said to you?” Westerhout said:
Uhm, I don’t believe he specifically said that, but I could just tell that the whole situation was very unpleasant.
Necheles’ cross has wrapped.
Key events
Donald Trump has left the courtroom.
His dress is all-American businessman: He’s wearing a deep blue suit and red tie and white shirt.
He didn’t look particularly enthused while leaving. He carried papers once again.
The court is taking a short break.
Before the break, Jenny Tomalin was asked about call logs for former Trump Organization CFO Allen Weisselberg.
Madeleine Westerhout, the former Trump White House director of Oval Office operations, also testified on Thursday about Donald Trump’s day-to-day frugality and how Rhona Graff, his assistant at the Trump Organization, once asked if he wanted to approve a roughly $6,500 annual dues payment to a golf club.
Trump’s handwritten note saying “Pay – ASAP, D” showed he paid attention to the minutiae.
Prosecutors effectively suggested to the jury it was implausible that Trump did not closely follow what 12 $35,000 checks, issued to his fixer Michael Cohen, were for.
Daniel Dixon has left the stand.
The next witness, Jenny Tomalin, has taken the witness stand. Tomalin is another custodial witness. She works at Verizon, as a senior analyst in executive relations.
Generally speaking, custodial witnesses are often used to present data to juries that touches on testimony or evidence, but is far more granular – like sheets with dates and lengths of phone calls, records of text exchanges, persons on contracts, etc.
Phone records can obviously bolster a lawyer’s case that people were or were not in communication with one another.
When Dixon was on the stand, defense attorney Emil Bove tried to chip away at the importance of this data. Bove asked:
These records, there’s a lot of data here, but the data has limits?
The AT&T analyst answered in the affirmative.
Alvin Bragg, the Manhattan district attorney who is bringing this unprecedented case, has just entered the courtroom.
Madeleine Westerhout, on the witness stand yesterday, testified that Donald Trump closely scrutinized checks he signed while he was president, and that he would call Trump Organization employees if he had questions about the checks.
The testimony on Thursday could be damaging for Trump insofar as it undercut the defense argument that Trump was detached from the scheme to reimburse his then fixer, Michael Cohen, for the hush money, and was not directly aware what the checks to Cohen were for.
Under cross-examination this morning, Westerhout testified that Trump would sometimes sign checks without reviewing them while he was juggling other tasks.
Rebecca Manochio, a junior Trump Organization bookkeeper, testified on Thursday that she would sent checks Trump needed to sign not to the White House, but to Trump’s longtime bodyguard Keith Schiller at his home.
Trump attorney Susan Necheles tried to portray this as routine, asking Westerhout this morning if the arrangement for Trump to receive personal mail through Schiller was so that he could receive them “promptly”. “I can’t imagine it would have been any different [in previous administrations],” Westerhout said.
The next witness called to the stand is Daniel Dixon, who works as a lead compliance analyst for AT&T.
Dixon is testifying under subpoena to AT&T as a records custodian.
Westerhout looks at Trump as she leaves the stand
And we’re done with re-direct, Trump attorney Susan Necheles is returning to the lectern to conduct more cross of Madeleine Westerhout.
“Did you meet the prosecutor before this?” Westerhout says: “I did.”
How many times? Three. When did you last? “Wednesday morning.” Necheles asks:
Just to reiterate, President Trump was very close to his family, right?
The prosecution objected, it was sustained.
Westerhout just left the stand. As she walked out of the gallery to exit, she looked to Donald Trump and raised her eyebrows, as a sort of greeting.
The prosecutor questioning Madeleine Westerhout, Rebecca Mangold, asked whether she’d spoken to Trump attorney Susan Necheles before.
Westerhout said yes, once, two nights ago.
It’s legal for lawyers to do that, but the prosecution is trying to suggest that anything nice Westerhout might have said about Donald Trump was influenced by the defense.
Westerhout says Trump was ‘very upset’ by Stormy Daniels story
Trump attorney Susan Necheles just asked Madeleine Westerhout about her time at the White House when the Stormy Daniels story came up.
“Did you have a conversation with President Trump about that?” Uh, yes I did.
Based on your conversation, Necheles asked, “what was your impression of his reaction? Westerhout said:
That he was very upset by it.
“And why?” Necheles pressed. Westerhout says:
In my understanding he knew it would be hurtful to his family.
Necheles asked: “That was based on what was said to you?” Westerhout said:
Uhm, I don’t believe he specifically said that, but I could just tell that the whole situation was very unpleasant.
Necheles’ cross has wrapped.
Trump attorney Susan Necheles is now showing Madeleine Westerhout an invoice that she’d sent to longtime Trump assistant Rhona Graff.
In your experience, Rhona Graff was very careful about not wanting to spend President Trump’s money without his approval. Right? She wanted to check with him — it was his money, right?”
Westerhout answered in the affirmative. “He answered with one word – Pay.” Yes.
“One word, it was off his desk?” Westerhout said yes.
All of the testimony that Necheles is eliciting is to bolster the defense argument that Donald Trump was a slammed, distracted multitasker who signed things without paying attention.
Westerhout testifies that Trump signed documents and checks without reviewing them
Trump attorney Susan Necheles is asking Madeleine Westerhout about Donald Trump’s habits on signing and reviewing documents.
Westerhout answers in the affirmative when Necheles asks if Trump would sign a “tremendous amount” of items that would “take up many hours of his days”.
Necheles asks:
Would you say it was hundreds of documents a day he was signing?
Westerhout answers:
Not every day but sometimes.
Necheles asks if she would see Trump signing things without reviewing them, and Westerhout replies: “Yes.”
“Would you see him signing checks without reviewing them?” Yes.
“Would you see him signing checks when he was on the phone?” Yes.
“When he was meeting with people?” Yes.
Trump attorney Susan Necheles, on her cross, is asking about Keith Schiller, the longtime Trump bodyguard, receiving Trump’s personal mail when he got into the White House.
Necheles asks:
It was a way that items could be sent them to you and you could get them to President Trump?
Madeleine Westerhout answered in the affirmative.
Didn’t other presidents have trouble receiving important mail at The White House? Westerhout replies:
I don’t have any knowledge of what it was like in previous administrations, but I can’t imagine it would have been any different.
Trump attorney Susan Necheles is trying to suggest there were things happening in the process of mail sent to Donald Trump that would have been out of Madeleine Westerhout’s view.
Necheles asks Westerhout if she knows how Trump or his wife, Melania, got personal items. Westerhout replies in the negative.
Necheles, through cross, elicited testimony that getting important mail to Trump and Melania at the White House got held up in moving through various layers.
“President Trump told you that friends of his felt he was being disrespectful of them?” Necheles asked.
Wasn’t that a problem, getting mail to President Trump through the White House?
Westerhout responds: “Yes.”
President Trump liked to return calls promptly, you testified yesterday.
“Yes.”
And you testified yesterday that President Trump thought it was disrespectful not to return calls promptly?
Westerhout responds in the affirmative.
Was this the same mail issue with Trump’s daughter, Ivanka? Westerhout said she didn’t have direct knowledge but, “probably.”